I have been hesitant to post something, because there are many younger people who view this blog, and maybe some newer Christians. The Bible has strong words for those who offend little ones, and for people who are stumbling- blocks. I do not want you to take what I say the wrong way. I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to get across. Please, if you have any questions, comment in the comment section or email me. I am not trying to go against your church's or family's policy but solely stating my own opinion. Chances are, that at some point while you are reading this post and the ensuing comments you will be entirely creeped out.
Viewer discretion is advised. Thank you.
The editor
Ok, here we go, I stand to get in trouble with most of you, but thats ok, I've been in "hot water" before.
The topic: Symbolism *everyone in chorus "what on earth"*
That page was just a start, and not quite what I'm talking about. Obviously "A""B""C"..., the swastika and many other things are are "symbols." I am not talking about these things.
I'm talking about cultural symbols and perceptions, and why I despise most of these, in our great American culture.
Lets take for example, alcohol, it is strongly preached against, and for whatever reason if you claim to be a Christian and someone who is not a Christian sees you drinking a beer (or whatever) they might wounder why they should become a Christian. BUT there is nothing in the Bible the directly says that alcohol is wrong accept "wherein is excess" You are welcome to debate me on this, but you will lose.
Or how about pink, why is it it "feminine," or why has the homosexual group taken it along with the rainbow as their "symbol?" I thought the rainbow was God's?
Don't even get me started on girlfriends, music, "Rev." Jeremiah Wright's, but more on him later. Now, for the record, I have never drank, but pink is a way better color then yellow, orange, and green. It just ticks people off to see my Halo (video game) character wearing pink armor and killing them all the time, not to mention the funny comments I get for it.
The same goes for most of the pet peeves of parents, and pastors in "hard core" Christian churches (bad terminology I know) If you want to ask about a pet peeve, I'll debate it with you, but I'm trying to avoid any problems with people on this.
Here is what C.S. Lewis said in his Screwtape Letters-
Screwtape (a higher demon) is writing to his nephew (a new tempter) Wormwood.
Letter IX
"My dear Wormwood...*skips a paragraph* Never forget that when we are dealing with any pleasures in its healthy and normal and satisfying form, we are, in a sense, on the Enemy's ground. I know we have won many a soul through pleasure. All the same, it is His invention, not ours. He made the pleasure: all our research so far has not enabled us to produce one. All we can do is to encourage the humans to take the pleasures which our Enemy has produced, at times, or in ways, or in degrees, which He has forbidden. Hence we always try to work away from the natural condition of any pleasure to that in which it is least natural, least redolent of its Maker, and least pleasurable. An ever increasing craving for an ever diminishing pleasure is the formula. It is more certain; and it's better style.
And what the said Mr. Wright had to say about it:
(listen to the whole thing, it's so funny and mostly true)
If you are an open minded individual, you have to admit he has a point.
Let me get this straight, sin is sin, period. I just disagree with making things sin (in a Biblical term) or wrong (from the world's point of view) that are not.
Somewhat like what Eve did in the garden of Eden:
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
You see God never said they can't touch it, He said:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Why then as a Church, family, or society do we make things wrong that are clearly not?
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47 comments:
We had a sermon about that a while back in South Bend...
*KNEW I should have taken notes :l*
Ok well we're going to Traverse but I'll get back to you later.
Very good post, Bret. So what on earth was everyone so worked up about? I haven't watched the video yet. I can't right now. I will try to tomorrow.
I agree whole heartedly about being tired of people making "sins" out of their own personal taste and views. Most people would rather have people tell them what they can and can not do than have self-government and learn how to balance things.
BTW, I really liked Screwtape Letters.
I did it again!! That was me and not Stephanie.
Rhonda-I really don't remember what their problem was, I think it is just the fact that they never think outside what they have always been told. If you really believe everything you are ever told, you are in for rough life.
Ladies and gents, you must have your own Christianity, you can't live on your parents or pastors coat tails forever. (don't take this the wrong way)
Anna- *runs for cover*
Rhonda-(The thing we might have talked about was the color pink. Anyone else remember?)
Everyone-Why do preachers and parents say these things are wrong? I am NOT trying to get you to go against those people, I just want to know what you think?
BTW Bret, when you said "Symbolism again" on my post about the quilts... I did not say that it was *wrong* for a man to quilt. I just said it wasn't natural. It isn't! The Virtuous Woman did many things having to do with sewing. Proverbs 31 talks about seeking wool and flax (fabrics) and spinning.
That I can think of men are never given an example to do such things from the Bible. Unless, of course, you count mending fishing nets. :) So again, I didn't say it was wrong for a man to quilt, it is just strange in my *opinion*!
(just in case you were wondering - this comment was mostly in jest!)
Thanks Anna! She's right Bret, none of us ever said anything about it being a sin! We were talking about assumptions/perceptions of those things. As I've already said, no there's nothing wrong with a guy wearing pink, but don't let one get near me or I'd be tempted to wring his neck! If you're a male be a man. Then of course its "wearing pink doesn't make you 'unmanly'". There's certain things that are associated with females and others with males. I HATE it when people try to ride that line!
Enough for now.
Probably more to come later. :P
I don't believe I said that anyone said that it was a sin. Sorry my comments to the "Ladies and gents and everyone" were random thoughts that I decided to add.
What I did mention was about "cultural symbols and perceptions" which you 2 girls seem to have an abundance of. My question is simply, why do you have those perceptions?
Anna-My point exactly, you have this conviction but can't or won't tell me why you believe it. LOL.
Rhonda-I guess you now know why they are so "worked up."
ss- You backpeddle a lot!
OK. In my Opinion *pink* should be gotten rid of ENTIRELY!!!! I cant stand it at all! I Don't wear it unless i am pinned down to the ground and it is put on me so it won't come off! I vote to get rid of Pink... Anyone second the motion?? :)
Noun
Singular-
conviction
Plural-
convictions
conviction (plural convictions)
1. (countable) A firmly held belief.
Whatever you want to call it is fine with me. But you still won't tell me why you "think it's disgusting!"
(Somewhat in jest) "backpedaling" is NOT a sin.
Amber - Where did Bret "back-pedal"?
Guy/girl colors are very cultural. Our society has said that pink and purple and "girls" colors for a long time. I have always wondered why there were colors that guys were banned from but girls could wear anything they wanted.
When guys started wearing pink a few years ago (this isn't the first trend for guys to wear pink. I have a really funny story about my Grandpa wearing pink) I thought it was very disgusting. I have gotten over it. I would still rather see a guy in an other color but that is HIS CHOICE so he can wear it if he wants. It is called liberty. Therefore, if it is his liberty, I don't have the right to ring his neck, or hit him over the head. (just a joke girls)
You are right, Lydia. Wearing pink doesn't make a guy manly. Wearing dirty jeans, work boots and a flannel shirt/t-shirt doesn't make a guy manly either. Just like wearing a skirt doesn't make a girl feminine or modest.
Why is it so wrong for a guy to wear pink but it is fine and dandy for a girl to wear shirts that any guy would wear and are very "masculine" in their appearance?
Not picking a fight - just stating my thoughts on the matter.
Sorry - that should have been wearing pink doesn't make him "unmanly".
"That is not a "cultural perception or symbol". That is MY PERSONAL OPINION. It would STILL be my personal opinion if no one else in the WORLD thought it was gross for a guy to wear pink."
Your cultural perception usually dictates your opinion. No matter how hard we try to avoid it, our culture does impact our thinking.
Another reason why: Usually Gay guys wear pink.... I just do not want that in my head. THEY think it is a feminine color so they wear it.
you all are so funny!
does pink matter that much to y'all???
I mean, I don't like to put it on myself, but I don't mind it on others.
Pink is a color that God made.
He did not say it was for girls or boys.
I don't like pink on guys, not cause it's pink, but 'cause of what others would think. and I just don't think it looks right.
If we had never made such a big deal about it then it wouldn't matter at all.
To tell the truth, I have thought as long as I have known, that it was cool Bret thought what he did about pink, seeing as his liking it goes along with my not liking it.
If all you girls are going to make that big a deal about it, then I think you should not wear Red, Blue, or Green. Those are guy colors stay away from them. I think girls should only wear Pink, Purple, and sometimes yellow.
See how silly that is?!
I have never seen Bret in pink, and I'm glad for it.
MB- "get rid of Pink"???
As I said before, "God made Pink" so why in the world would you want to get rid of something He made?
I'd like to ask, is it OK for guys to have Bubblegum? Cotton Candy? Jello? Peeps?
OK now that I've Typed all this silly stuff out, that has but a little to do with the post at hand...
By way of info BSBT red, blue and green are not "boys colors". And in answer to "is it OK for guys to have Bubblegum? Cotton Candy? Jello? Peeps?" All of those excluding the jello (which i've never seen pink of) are gross! I don't know why one would want them, but of course it's ok. Along with that, as I've already stated it's ok for a guy to wear pink. But as all this boils down to one's personal opinion, I will look down on a guy who wears it! Some have said that it doesn't make them any different (unmanly for example) if they do, but that's up to personal opinion as well because it does make them different to me! Not only because of my characteristics of a man but also as MB stated HS's have chosen pink as one of their colors. Not only do they wear it but I've heard that they'll paint at least one room of their house that color. (I guess that does go along with the man thing) O well, this really isn't getting anywhere, but Bret or anyone else, before you wear pink consider...
Some how we managed to take the whole topic and make it an argument over the color pink. It was far from this one issue the the post was about. It was the whole idea of taking your thought on an issue and belittling or look down upon an other because they have different taste. Both sides might be fine in their place.
MB, you still haven't stated what Bret backpedaled on.
And an other thing - I will not let sodomites take and pervert something else that God has given us. They have already claimed the rainbow and people have let them have it as their "symbol." I am tired of the wicked taking over things and Christians just rolling over and letting them have it and then telling the next generation that that is bad. Why is it bad? Because (name the group - sodomites, hippies, The Beetles, etc.) are associated with that. That has happened time and again. Dancing is one example of that.
Thanks for chiming in Bethany. I liked what you had to say. I have stated from the beginning that it is not a matter of pink, it is the mindset. The mindset of I like/ don't like this so, therefore, it should/shouldn't be done.
I think rhonda's got it nailed down. Take the christmas tree for an example. I think we can all agree that there is nothing wrong with decorating a christmas tree, but there are some christians who won't because they link it with a pagan tradition. In my humble opinion, if I do something, it's the 'mindset' or 'heart' that is the real issue. I know, that idea can be twisted and perverted, as can any theory, but it is totally logical. If i decorate a christmas tree, I have no intent of worshiping a pagan god, fulfilling a pagan ritual, or any such abominable action; for which reason my actions in decorating my tree are not, in any way, sinfull, wrong or wicked. Now, on the other hand, the pagan who somewhere in some far away land a long, long time ago decorated a tree *with evil intent* will be judged for his sin in doing so.
This can be applied to anything that some percieve as wrong because some pervert does it.
Essentially, you have two options. You can go to one extreme like the amish, who drive buggies because the 'world' drives cars, wear blue and black and suspenders and towels on their heads because the 'world' wears 'attractive' clothing, and the list goes on and on; or you can descend from your mountaintop and realize that this is 2008, you actually live in the world, whether you like it or not, and if your 'mindset' or 'heart' is right (within the specific bounds of scripture) in what you do, you can do it, and you're 'safe'.
Jimmy- I agree somewhat with you. Take wearing Blue jeans for one matter. Yes i wear Jeans, But you will never and i repeat never see me in Tight jeans or Immodest clothing, but i don't believe that girls HAVE to wear just skirts and dresses all of their life. And if you do see me in immodest clothing any of you.... I give you permission to shoot me.
Rhonda- I will tell you tomorrow why.
Bret, I think we high-jacked your blog. :)
We went to see "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" tonight. Bad, bad, movie! Ben Stein wore a pink shirt all the way through it!
Okay, okay, bad joke! I know. I couldn't resist. I realized we finally got off that topic but when I saw him in a pink shirt I had to laugh. :)
Incidentally......Where did Bret backpeddle? Did I miss something?
Ok enough commenting now.....
Sorry about the "ringing" thing, Anna. I seem to always do that when I type. Most of the time I catch it but sometimes I don't. I always start to type "right" when it should be "write."
I had the same thought about "being in the world but not of it." What a hard balance to strike!
You did miss any thing with MB backpedaling thing. She never answered. :) What ever it was I missed it too.
Twice in one comment thread! Me again! I need to start looking at who is signed in!
what about being "in the world but not of it"?
That's a 'nice' saying, but my point comes right back to this;
If what you are doing is done with a a clean 'heart' or 'mindset', and lies within the bounds of scripture, you're not 'of the world'!
about the amish thing, the only reason i used that as an example is because you've got to draw a line somewhere, but where? the real amish are more respectable in some ways, because they believe that you should be 'seperated', and they go all out to be that way. Now, they're wrong, mistaken, and misguided, but they don't do ANYTHING that 'the world' does.
If you REALLY believe that if 'the world' does something, it makes it wrong, you BETTER go all out, or you're making a glaring hypocrite out of yourself. Now, we all know that living like the amish do is not wise, because that lifestyle does not earn you 'brownie points' with God, nor does it make you righteous, and it's a lot easier to get about in life if we make use of modern technology! We know that just because 'the world' drives cars, that doesn't make all cars evil. We know that, contrary to some mennonite's beliefs, a mustang with red paint isn't evil just because 'the world' wants to drive fancy sports cars. With that said, No, i'm not saying that christians can do everything 'the world' does, because the bible lays out some things as violating God's laws, which make them SIN. which brings us back around to the original post; to put it in simple american, IF THE BIBLE DON'T SAY IT'S A SIN, IT AINT!!! so don't try to make it one.
I wasn't disagreeing with you, Caleb. I was just saying it is a hard thing to balance. I have found that there are a lot of things it is not "wrong" to do, but there are so many things that it would be so much better to do with your time.
Hey Ann, I guess turn about is fair play. So, Bret didn't do any "backpeddling," only backpedaling. :) Of course, I didn't see any of that either. ;)
Ut o. Guess I copied what Amber put without thinking, :)
OK People...I have already Explained in Person to Rhonda and somewhat in person to Anna Joy and will not explain to any one else for reasons of my own.
Wow great discussion.
Not to bring this back but...
due to the fact that no one has given me a satisfactory reason why pink should not be worn on guys, I think I'm going to go buy one. If only for the reason to annoy some of you!
"I was just saying it is a hard thing to balance."
Rhonda, we have some rules in our family that I would like to see changed. LOL. Recently I have been talking to my dad about why we have them. And the main thing he has pointed out to me is the fact that "deciding at what level to live is one of the hardest things for a Christian to do"
I guess the main problem I have is the fact that people are SO judgmental of everything other people do that does not fit their version of "good" or proper. I did it a lot, (and still do sometimes) Like with people drinking, I used to think that it was so rotten, evil, devilish etc. Of course I now know that drinking is not a sin.
Now Amber, I would really appreciate if you would bring your concerns about my vices (of which there are many) into the open. To bring a public accusation against someone and not say the whole thing is, to me, somewhat disturbing. I hope you understand that in a debate, "backpedaling" is a serious charge.
I also hope you understand that our friendship is not contingent upon the point, so whatever you would like to do is fine with me.
LOL
"Rules" are sometimes necessary for children. As a person matures and grows in Christ though, self-government should take over. As Christ draws us closer to Him, and we fall more in Love with Him, it becomes our desire to please Him for the sake of pleasing Him and not because we are afraid of "getting in trouble" for not obeying the rules.
Also, as we see more and more our own sinful nature we should become less judgmental of others. When we see what we really are, we have only to boast in Christ.
Wow thats great, I'm afraid I can be the "getting in trouble" type all to often, thx rhonda.
Bret- One of my reasons is that my parents do not believe in putting people out in the open for the whole world to see what mistakes have been made. It just downs their opinion of them. Now, I have not told Rhonda or Anna what it was about. I just told them what they needed to know.
Yeah, my parents and I have had that discussion many times. "So WHY do we have this rule that seems to be doing nothing?" Guys especially need to have their own convictions in preperation for being the head of their own home sometime. While I don't necessarily agree with some of the things you're saying, Bret, I agree with the general principle you're working off of.
It's ok if you update, y'know.......
I know this is really, really late, but I just now discovered this blog, and would like to add that, as Brett said via C.S. Lewis, God created the world for us to enjoy, and though Satan may pervert what God has called 'good', we should not allow him to replace God as the dictator of what we will and will not enjoy. I Timothy 4:4-5 "For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." No, this should not be used as an excuse to do whatever we please, but admittedly, there are many things under condemnation in many Christian groups today that are not necessarily evil or harmful in and of themselves, and actually, which God intends for us to enjoy. Alcohol is a prime example, because scripture is clear that God gave us wine to make the heart glad (Psalm 104:15). So what reasons do we have for these petty "hang-ups" that so often distract us from our main calling: To preach the gospel to all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit. Are our convictions based on Scripture, or are they merely personal 'feelings'? Even if these feelings are valid reasons not to engage in certain activities, are we being careful not to judge others based on our own, perhaps unfounded, convictions? How can we reach out to a culture that so desperately needs Christ when we can't relate to the people on any level, because we are so easily offended? The last few questions are not intended to be rhetorical, but as food for thought. Sorry if this isn't very organized or thorough...
Good thoughts, Janna. I totally agree. With this blog I don't think anyone is every too late. It has the posts that never die. :)
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